Thoughts About 'Face' (1)

Trying as one constantly does to understand that little bit more, reach that little bit further, into Thai culture, you often come across / hear mentioned 'face,' and the way that it affects Thai's. In fact you come across it so often, you may come to believe it is a driving factor in day to day life in Thailand.

I was flicking through some blog posts and came across Laurence Michael's excellent site focused on Phuket, intoPhuket, and read his post on 'How to act in Thailand'.

Quote: 'For a lot of Thai's the concept of face is of the utmost importance and they will likely do anything in their power to gain retribution over someone who makes them lose face. To make a Thai lose face, all you must do is make them look foolish, stupid or flat out wrong especially in the presence of other Thai's.'

This is also my understanding of face, but it got me thinking..... Although this is considered an important, if not unique, part of Thai culture, are we in the West so different?

For instance, think of the last time somebody (who wasn't family etc) deliberately set out to make you look foolish...

Didn't you try to seek retribution in some way..?

.. maybe, you still are?

Comments

[Snap]

Causing someone to lose face, in any culture, is a low act. I'd not be likely to seek retrebution, instead, I'd leave the person alone and looking like the bully/face taker, that they are. Not really turn the other cheek, but keep my other cheek out of their way. Perhaps that's not an option here?

[Ben Shingleton]

Agreed Snap. I guess Thai's might be extra sensitive to this type of behaviour, helping to explain why they are generally so polite? Are us Westerners 'better at taking it on the chin?' Not in my experience! We can hide the fact that we're offended just as well as the Thai's!

[Snap]

Sure Jon, I agree, depending on the individual person, some falang would go out of their way to seek retribrution...or revenge. I have seen khon Thai go to great lengths to NOT cause someone to lose face, to the extent of giving them the wrong impression. I don't think too many westerners would keep the facade going quite as long. Interesting subject!

[Lawrence Michaels]

First of all, thanks for the shout out.

I think that the concept of 'face' exists in the west as well, maybe you would call it 'reputation' or 'honor'. But in Thailand it is more engrained into the day to day lives of the people.

If someone was so inclined, they could probably write volumes on this subject alone. I have read many articles on the subject and tried to justify the idea in my own mind, but I fear we are merely scratching the surface.

My theory as to why it is so prevalent in Thailand has to do with the socio-economic status of the majority of the population. When you have a lot of money and status, 'face' may not be as important to you when compared to a poor farmer who has little else then his 'face'. Just my own idea, but who knows really.

[Ben Shingleton]

Surely agree Lawrence, it is a very deep rooted and complicated topic, and although there are comparisons with Western behaviour there are major differences also.

For instance, I just found out recently that in the company I work for, Thai people of similar 'ranking' or status, find it very awkward / difficult to discuss with one another the best way to go about 'a job', for fear of one 'out-status'-ing the other...! They just simply won't / don't discuss these things...

I'm sure that this can happen in the West also, but probably more a personality thing, rather than the general rule...

[Lawrence Michaels]

@Ben - I don't have much personal experience with that in particular, but I have read about similar situations. Another thing that goes on is a lack of dissension or criticism of ideas. In the business world, someone could have an obviously terrible idea, but none of the subordinates (or anyone for that matter) will point it out. The idea could end up costing the company a lot of money, but nobody will say a word so as to not make the person lose 'face'.

[Grumpy]

Interesting post. In the western world we seems to have disagreements and voices get raised but an apology will usually resolve the issue. I would like to know if there is a way to restore someones face when I reacted incorrectly?

[Ben Shingleton]

Yes that rings a bell in my case also Grumpy, a few words in anger, period of feeling bad, all make up and better again at the end... I'm sure this also is the case in Thailand, but depends on the circumstances and the people involved I suppose... I know some Thai's who will shrug things off and not raise an eyebrow at provocation, and others that blow things out of all proportion (I am married to a Thai lady, after all :D)

Again I think alot of it boils down to personality.

And the other thing to consider is, you'll probably never know if you've offended a Thai, they'll just keep it in their heart forever :) (but again I think we do this also in the West??)

[Tony]

Face is an interesting concept in Asia. I am more familiar with it in China than Thailand, but I was talking at length about it with a Thai guy who owns a bar in Chiang Rai during Songkran and he said the only time ordinary Thais are really likely to get violent is when they lose face. It's all about compromise and not letting the other guy lose completely.

I haggle pretty hard in Thailand, but I often end up paying a few Baht more than I agreed when the person turns out to be really nice. Especially with the tricycle guys.

[Ben Shingleton]

The whole face issue escapes me / confuses me immensley (which is probably why I have such a hard time / spend time trying to suss it out).... I often wonder if that we Western folk are 'overcomplicating' it... I mean, I just don't see that it is so vastly different from our own values of 'losing face'..

For instance, I'd argue that, perhaps, 9 times out of 10(?), farang folk will only get violent, when they feel like they have 'lost face'..? ?

Like I say, it is something I cannot say I'm an expert on.

[Dave]

"Face" is the single issue that holds Thailand back as a country and people. It is ridiculous and counterproductive to what degree it controls their lives. Sad really.